Northern Ireland Community Relations Council - About Us - Council Minutes

24 September 2009

MINUTES OF THE ONE HUNDRED & THIRTY-SEVENTH AND ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THE COMMUNITY RELATIONS COUNCIL HELD ON THURS 24th SEPTEMBER 2009 @ 1.30 p.m. IN CRC’S BOARDROOM, 2ND FLOOR, MURRAY STREET, BELFAST BT1 6DN

2014/09 PRESENT: Action:

Mr J Deery, Mr S Farry, Ms H Francey, Ms S Gordon, Mr T Kennedy, Ms R McCorley, Mr T McCusker. (Chair), Ms S McDermott, Ms M Muldoon, Mr E Oakes, Mr D Porter.

2015/09 APOLOGIES:

Ms E Gallagher, Ms Hetherington, Ms C Wilson.

2016/09 IN ATTENDANCE:

Dr D Morrow [CEO], Ms J Irwin {Deputy CEO], Mr J Fitzsimons (PD/DFAP)

Mr R Mullan [P/D Communication & Resources], Ms M Mackin [PD/F&D], Ms G Attwood (PO/Policy); Mr J Dennison [PD/Policy]; Ms H Scott [P/Secretary].

Mr P Dolan [Messrs Finegan Gibson]

2017/09 OBSERVER: Mr D Haire (CRU/OFMDFM).

2018/09 MINUTES:

The minutes from the previous meeting (19 June May 2009) having been circulated was taken as read. There were no amendments. Approval proposed by Mr Kennedy and seconded by Ms McDermott

2019/09 MATTERS ARISING:
(i) Link [Mins 2019/09 Item 1 refers]: the CEO outlined the current situation in connection with an IFI grant. He said that after a misunderstanding he had agreed with Mr McNarry MLA to another meeting with representatives of community groups but this had been cancelled by them.

Mr Haire (OFMDFM) thought there might be other issues around other funding.

(ii) Full day Council meeting: The Chair advised that this had been postponed from September to November because of the delay in

2019/09 Matters Arising continued: Action:

Full day Council meeting cont: receiving the finalised Accounts from NIAO.. He said the revised proposal was for a full day in Derry/Londonderry (with the new members) in November.

(iii) Weber Shandwick: The CEO informed members that a second version of their report (review of PR and Communications Strategy) had been received. He said that there were issues around terms of reference and the amended version was still not deemed satisfactory.

The CEO said that there would be an internal communications review and that Mr Kennedy, retired member Ms Wilson plus three members of staff (himself, DCEO and Mr Mullan) hoped to have something ready by the end of the year.

Working group

2020/09 CHAIR’S BUSINESS:

(1) CSI papers Sinn Fein and DUP: Copies were tabled at the meeting.

A letter to Ministers (Robinson and McGuiness dated 14 September 2009 was tabled at the meeting (at Chairman’s request.)

There followed a general discussion around the issue of omissions in both documents.

Mr Farry said that he thought that CRC might need to develop at strategy because although there were open debates in the Assembly about Coleraine and people on all sides talking about sectarianism there were no conversations about policy.

It was agreed that formal clarification was required form all parties as to their views about where CRC stood in organisational terms and clarity around their perceptions of CRC’s role.

Chair/CEO

Mr Farry suggested that a letter was also written to the Committee.

This was agreed. Chair/CEO

(Mr P Dolan from Messrs Finegan Gibson entered the boardroom at 2.05 p.m.)

2020/09 Chair’s business continued: Action:

(2) Definition of a Victim: The Chair suggested that, if appropriate, a paper could be written and circulated to members at a later date. Chair/CEO

(3) Good Relations Forum: The Chair said that Mr Bruce Robinson (Head

of the Civil Service) had been frank and a lot of what he said had resonated (reference the CSI documents). He said that the main issue was education and there was a paper in which the Council and ECNI were developing views. The Chair said this matter would come back to Council as an item for discussion at a later date.

(4) Victims Conference 28^th & 29th: The Chair reminded members that

this two-day conference was being held in Newcastle.

2021/09 AUDIT: draft paper from NI Audit Office
The CEO apologised for the fact that no final management letter had been tabled. He said it had been hoped that the NIAO final draft would be completed today but that this had not been possible. The CEO told members that this would be circulated once finalised.

The CEO reported that the NICRC Accounts had been given a “clean bill of health” and on this basis members could proceed to agree the Annual Accounts.

He thanked Messrs Finegan Gibson for their assistance and for their help in the preparation of the CRC accounts.

CRC Accounts: Mr Dolan (Messrs Finegan Gibson) pointed out that the document was a large one which was a result in the move from a limited company to public sector accounting which required the inclusion of additional documentation.

Mr Dolan summarised the main points of the Accounts: (pages 1 to 23 respectively).

General Information (page 1 refers):

Mr Fitzsimons pointed out that this page refers to a Company Secretary and that this needed to be adjusted because a Company Secretary was no longer mandatory.

The Chair suggested the Council could look at this again with a view to possibly electing a Secretary or proposing a number of potential members.

Remuneration Report (page 14 refers):

Mr Fitzsimons pointed out that the CEO’s pension figures appeared to have been transposed with the DCEO’s pension figures and although it did not affect totals it should be checked

2021/09 AUDIT/CRC accounts continued: Action:

Mr Dolan said he would look at this.

P Dolan (Finegan Gibson)

Statement of Financial activities for year ended 31 March 2009 (page 21 refers)

Mr Dolan said that the reduced deficit (£21.437) had been as a result of CRC clawing back some grant payments. He said that the increase in “Other Expenditure” had been due to the increase in staff and further office space required.

Statement of Total Recognised Gains and Losses(page 22 refers)

Mr Dolan pointed out the actuarial gain(loss) on marked value of the defined (pension) benefit scheme’s assets and liabilities had been reduced.

Balance Sheet as at March 31 2009 (page 23 refers)

Mr Dolan reported that the main movements were in fixed assets which had increased. He said that debtors had increased but this was in relation to the timing of payments and the timing of drawing income down. Mr Dolan said that some of the delays in the draw-downs had meant that grants could not be paid until after 31 March 2009.

Mr Haire (OFMDFM) asked if the accounts had been forwarded to OFMDFM (Finance Branch).

The CEO said that he was waiting for the final draft from NIAO.

Mr Dolan (Finegan Gibson) confirmed that the Finance Branch has received shadow accounts.

There followed a general discussion.

The CEO stated that there was no room for complacency and CRC needed to get its figures right for next year. He said that personally he was relieved to have received a clear report from the NIAO. The CEO reiterated his appreciation to Messrs Finegan Gibson who had dealt with the majority of account enquiries from the NIAO. He also paid tribute to the DCEO (Mrs J Irwin), HR Manager (Mrs J Adamson) and the Finance Officer (Mr I Thompson) for their assistance during the internal and the NIAO audits.

The Chair extended a formal “thank you and congratulations” to Finegan Gibson, all the CRC staff involved, and the Audit Committee.

Proposal to sign off the accounts was made by Ms H Francey and seconded by Mr S Farry.

2021/09 AUDIT/CRC accounts continued: Action:

The Chair suggested that the final NIAO report, once agreed by the Audit Committee, be circulated to members.

CEO

2022/09 RECRUITMENT OF NEW MEMBERS:

[Paper CRC/137/09/09/02 refers]

A list of (10) new members was circulated at the meeting.

The CEO confirmed that the interview process had been conducted with observers from OCPANI and a sub-committee of Council had interviewed candidates and made a selection of ten from those who had applied. He said the panel had nominated members who were broadly reflective of the wider community in NI taking particular account of:

Merit order of individuals

Religious background

Minority ethic background

Geographical spread of residence

Representation of younger people

The Chair said there was an issue of past members applying having been off Council for only one year. He indicated that a past member had applied and that the panel had taken the view that one year off the Council Board was too short and they would look at the current rule (Articles of Association) with a view to extending this from 1yr to 3yrs.

Membership extension proposal: The Chair said he was proposing that Ms Maureen Hetherington be considered for an extension to her term of office for a further year as there had been no membership applications from North West (Derry/Londonderry) area. He said that the panel had checked this with Ms Hetherington and she had indicated her willingness to remain on the Board for a further year if agreed by Board members

This was agreed.

The Chair stated that, as well as the North West, the panel would try to get candidates from the South with both loyalist and republican backgrounds.

The Chair asked if members would ratify the ten candidates selected.

Proposal to ratify the ten new members was made by Mr Francey and seconded by Mr Farry.

2023/09 FINANCE:

[Papers CRC/137/09/09/03(a) & (b), 03(c) 1 to 8 refer]

1 Management Accounts & Financial Statements: 03(a) & (b) refer

Mr Fitzsimons said that these accounts had been produced in conjunction with Messrs Finegan Gibson and had received a favourable response by the General Purposes and Audit Committees.

2 Grants review: 03(c) No.s 1 to 8 refer. Mr Fitzsimons said that these pages provided a snapshot of grants paid and should be read in conjunction with the “Summer overview” paper in the Funding and Development Sector Report [appendix paper CRC/137/09/09/10(a)]

Mr Fitzsimons gave members an assurance that there were sufficient funds in the CRC grant schemes to enable it to function until March 2010.

General Purposes Committee [verbal update refers]: Mr Fitzsimons provided members with the following up-date.

1 Gifts and hospitality– a draft policy (based on the NI Civil Service policy suggested by NIAO as best practice) had been presented to the GP Committee. Mr Fitzsimons said that it recommended a central register denoting offers whether accepted or rejected. GP Committed had accepted the draft paper. This will require training for staff.

2 Absentee figures– these were presented and they were within the “normal” range.

3 Tendering and procurement - Mr Fitzsimons told members that CRC, based on advice from the internal audit, would be required to go through the Central Procurement Directorate. He said the CEO would seek advice in this regard. CEO

Ms McDermott recommended that advice was sought prior to any central procurement agreement.

4 AA post to AO post - Mr Fitzsimons said that the GP Committee considered a detailed paper regarding the re-grading of AA to AO. He said the recommendation from the GP Committee was that extra work/research needed to be done on this. Mr Fitzsimons indicated that the GP Committee had suggested that a full review of CRC posts might be the best way to proceed.

The Chair suggested that it could be a difficult issue regarding the scoring of posts and legal advice would be sought.

2024/09 OPERATIONAL PLANNING:

[Papers CRC/137/09/09/04(a) to 04(d) refer]

Equality update

Section 75 Report

Performance review + cover page

Performance Indicators

The Chair suggested that Council work on the basis that members had looked at these papers (which had also been presented to the General Purposes Committee) and if members were happy they would be considered as being endorsed.

There were no questions.

Shared Services project:

(i) Ms Irwin (DCEO) reported that the Shared Services project was re-evaluating its purposes and aims..

(ii) Ms Irwin and the CEO had met with the project co-ordinators and expressed concerns about lack of clarity about future aims. If the project proceeds, CRC may seek advice from OFMDFM.

(iii) The CEO expressed concerns about the value of this project for CRC. Investigations had already shown that CRC represents value for money – indeed is the most efficient of all the organisations surveyed. No potential savings have been identified.

(Ms Mackin & Ms Attwood entered the boardroom @ approximately 3 p.m.)

2024/09 PATHFINDERS:

[Papers CRC/137/09/05(i) & 05(ii) refer]

The above papers detail background, considerations and recommendations for each project.

(i) Irish School of Ecumenics – Paper CRC/137/09/09/05(i) refers

tabled at meeting.

Amount requested: (total) £22,169.00

Amount approved: (Fora costs only) £13,469.00

Members expressed the view that the evaluation, travel and publication costs could be subject of a small grant application.

Ms Francey suggested that they could apply to Belfast City Council for part of the evaluation/publication costings.

2024/09 Pathfinders continued: Action:

(ii) Springfarm – Paper CRC/137/09/09/05(ii) refers

Amount requested: (worker for 7 months) £13,854.00 (max)

Amount approved: £13.854.00

The CEO advised that this was interim funding pending an IFI grant.

(Mr D Haire left the boardroom at 3.30 p.m. Ms H Francey left at 3.40 p.m.)

2025/09 POLICY PAPERS:

[Papers CRC/137/09/06(a), 06(b) & 06(c) refer]

(i) Derry City Council EQIA – change of name – 06(a)

The CEO said that he did not think individuals would change their views and he thought that whoever lost this debate would be extremely angry and resentful.

Mr Kennedy pointed out that it was not CRC’s position as a Council to say what should be done except that the outcome should be as inclusive as possible.

Ms Attwood asked if points 5.6 and 5.7 (page 5) should remain.

The Chair confirmed they should.

Paper Agreed

(Mr P Dolan left the boardroom at 3.45 p.m.)

(ii) Victims & Survivors Service – consultation paper – 06(b)
The Chair informed members that this paper had gone through a number of stages.

Ms Mackin told members that this issue (proposal to establish a Victims and Survivors service) would be raised at the Victims Conference next week.

Ms Muldoon said, picking up on Ms Irwin’s point, that in an environments when some MLAs were talking about getting rid of NDPBs it was ironic that a new body was being mooted.

Paper Agreed.

2025/09 Policy papers continued: Action:

(iii) DOE – reform of the planning system in NI – consultation paper - 06(c)

The Chairman asked if there were any queries regarding this paper.

There were none.

Paper Agreed.

(Ms Mackin and Ms Attwood left the boardroom @ 3.55 p.m.)

2026/09 JOSEPH ROWNTREE:

[Papers CRC/137/09/07(i) & Questions paper 07(ii) refer]

Papers outline the background and recommendations to this project.

The Chair reminded members that this project had been raised at previous Council meetings. He said that the above papers detailed what CRC & Joseph Rowntree were bringing to Council for approval. The Chair said that Joseph Rowntree seemed to be pleased with the proposals.

(Mr J Dennison entered the boardroom at 3.55 p.m.)

The CEO pointed out that Joseph Rowntree would be a prestigious partner and had a reputation for publishing accurate and evidence-based data. He said that CRC could recruit a research Director for a three year period and if Joseph Rowntree saw it as a good project they might extend to five years.

Ms Muldoon expressed the view that CRC should always be involved in research like this. She said that PSNI have applied for money from Peace III for work in

those areas still disaffected by policy. Ms Muldoon said that hate crime data (for example) was very crude and that it was critical that intelligent data was obtained.

(Mr Oakes left the boardroom at 4.03 p.m.)

Mr Kennedy congratulated CRC for bringing this forward he suggested other indicators might be considered e.g. flags and public displays.

The Chair said that for the first 6 months would involve scoping for data.

Ms McDermott asked if the project was only for a year what the approach was in terms of money.

2026/09 Joseph Rowntree continued: Action:

The CEO said that CRC had authority to appoint a research director for a particular project –an d if there was enough to fund JR would increase the funding but would give CRC an indication in the first year if WHAT was not sufficient. He said that CRC would need to think of the order of these things and come back to Council.

Council members gave their approval to continue with the outline of the project.

2027/09 CEO’S REPORT:

[Paper CRC/137/09/08 refers]

The Chair pointed out that most items had already been covered.

The CEO said that he wanted to highlight “external issues” and that he was continually being asked to do things which had taken him away from the work place and these were sometimes difficult decisions.

Coleraine (pg 5): The CEO said that CRC recognised the fears in the community were enormous. He said all Councillors seemed to be saying was that inter-schools projects were not going to happen and that these seemed to be the only things that existed.

Lurgan (pg5) The CEO said there was a need for infra structure co-ordinated by the Southern Education Board He said that Lurgan Catholics couldn’t access the park and the Protestants could access MacDonald’s there was an invisible line at night and an absence of resources.

Ms McDermott said that the Heritage Lottery Fund was putting regeneration money into Lurgan and wondered if there would be an opportunity for some co-ordination.

The Chair said that this was not the only place where there was an invisible line, indicating that Portadown was similar. He stated that policy almost always seemed to rely on people coming forward to declare their problems.

The Chair expressed the view that intelligence was not coming in quickly enough. He said there was often the comment “I told you something was going to happen” but it never got out.

Ms Irwin said that CRC got intelligence but did not always use it.

(Ms Muldoon left the boardroom @ 4.20 p.m.)

2028/09 SECTOR REPORTS:

[Papers CRC/137/09/09 to 13 refer]

These reports outline the main areas of work.

Communication & Learning Resources (Paper CRC/137/09/09/09 refers)

Funding & Development Programme (Paper CRC/137/09/09/10 & appendix 10(a) refers)

Policy Development Programme (Paper CRC/137/09/09/11 refers)

IFI Community Bridges Programme (Paper CRC/137/09/09/12 refers)

EU Programme (Paper CRC/137/09/09/13 refers

2028/09 Sector reports continued:

EU Programme – Priority 1.1.: The CEO said was a possibility that N+2 targets might not be met. He said that CRC had, in every report it had made, pointed out that the N + 2 target could not be met. He said that there were indications that people were looking for someone to blame but he assured members that CRC had maintained constant records.

Priority 1.2: The CEO pointed out that CRC had joint responsibility with Border Action. He said that he believed CRC’s own internal targets would be met.

Ms Irwin said that despite the targets not being met CRC staff had completed a huge amount of work and brought enthusiasm and commitment to the task.

2029/09 AOB:

1 Re-imaging project: Mr Kennedy informed members that the project had been evaluated as being very positive.

The CEO pointed out that this was not only about taking down (paramilitary) murals but giving communities a chance to express themselves in different terms.

2 Chair’s review of current members: The chairman is meeting current members on 19 and 20^th October to discuss Council matters.

2029/09 AOB continued: Action:

Ø Induction of New members: A programme of training has been arranged for November and December.

Ø Resignation: The Chair advised that Mr M Campbell had ceased to be a CRC member (in June). Mr Campbell’s new work commitments restricted his availability for Council and committee meetings.

Ø Committee membership: The Chair will bring forward proposals for Committee membership which will include new members .

Chair

3 Core Funding Programme: Ms Gordon enquired if this was to be evaluated.

The CEO confirmed that OFMDFM intended to complete an evaluation during 1009/10.

4 Thank you: The CEO extended his thanks and appreciation (on behalf of Council) to the retiring Council members (Ms C Wilson and Ms M Muldoon) for their commitment and support during their term of office.

2030/09 DATES OF NEXT MEETINGS:

Ø Wed 24 November 2009 @ 1.30 p.m. (The Junction, Bishop Street, Derry)

Ø Thurs 28 January 2010 @ 1.30 p.m.

Ø Wed 31 March 2010 @ 1.30 p.m.

Ø Thurs 27 May 2010 (possibly in CRC’s offices in Linen Green Centre Moygashel, Dungannon)

Community Relations Council

24th September 2009